Antecedents: László Kövér about the European Union:
"If there were a referendum now, I would definitely vote no"
The right-wing renaissance will de facto occur
It is still worth it when the EU ceases to exist in its current form, says the Speaker. Will he become head of state? What is your favorite flower? Would an opposition role benefit Fidesz? Our interview!
Interview with Laura Szalai in the weekly Mandiner.
What kind of flower do you choose if you want to please a lady’s acquaintance?
My wife says I’m not good at this genre. (Laughs) For example, when we go to a guest party, most of the time I usually entrust the florist to make a nice bouquet for the host lady. Sometimes, however, I choose. My favorite is the rose, but I’m happy to buy something else depending on what kind of flower suits the occasion.
Tímea Szabó, a dialogue representative, recently received a bouquet from you for quietly listening to a pro-government speech, but she was not happy with the choice, she thought the blue carnations smelled dilute. What did you say to that?
I would refer back to the last sentence of my previous answer.
His relations with opposition MPs did not improve during this session either. According to the HVG, since 2013 it has imposed a fine of HUF 96 million on 159 cases, and only a negligible amount on pro-government politicians. Don’t you think you’re doing free advertising to the opposition?
Precisely because of that amount, I don’t think we can talk about free advertising. Seriously, of course, I am aware that this is a game for them, which is about provoking the President-in-Office as much as possible and creating the most exciting entries for the Facebook public so important to them. If I ignored all the scandalous manifestations, I myself would be violating the house rule. Together with the Vice-Presidents, it is our duty to guard the dignity of the House, sometimes to curb the conduct of Members. It is not the Hungarian house rule that is too strict, or I am too rigorous, but some members of the opposition are blatantly rude, cheeky and evil. They are not interested in their conduct not only expelling themselves but also parliamentarism. Incidentally, with these statistics, HVG did not complete the work. I advise him to count: how many times opposition members shout in a session, as evidenced by the minutes, and how many times I speak. Even in the case of Tímea Szabó, I only respond to a tenth of what the exclamation is recorded in the minutes. Politicians who present themselves as defenders of liberal democracy are simply unable to tolerate patience when someone has a different opinion.
Hungary will remain a member of the union until it collapses ”
From this, the opposition still feels a double standard, as the Prime Minister is free to gobble up Gábor Vona, but Péter Jakab cannot praise Tamás Deutsch. The seedling of an oligarch close to him, funding the party, created a portal of the same name, which, incidentally, deals with our waste from the first moment. Anyway, flogging also deserved a sanction because it is also clear from the context that the sole purpose of the user of the term was to insult him.
The end of the spring session was loud since the adoption of the Pedophile Act. Wouldn’t the really drastic move have been if chemical castration were also introduced?
We considered it, but at the government’s suggestion we eventually rejected it. This would have meant voluntary drug treatment that could have protected society and the offender at the same time from the tragic consequences of otherwise difficult-to-control predispositions. However, its introduction currently raises complex legal and moral issues for which the Hungarian legislative and application process has not been prepared.
The law was eventually supplemented with passages banning homosexual propaganda. You have previously likened the demand to adopt a child of the same sex to pedophilia. Are you satisfied with the new regulations?
We have passed one of the most important laws of the last twelve years, so for my part, I am satisfied.
Everything and everyone on the left is old ”
This can no longer be said about the leadership of the EU;
If I were naive, I would say I honestly don’t understand what their problem is. One has to make some effort to try to explain the irrational, hateful anger and dislike that the law has provoked among a significant number of Western European politicians. For the first time, I felt that some SZDSZ politicians hated us more than everyone else, especially Viktor Orbán. There is a psychological explanation for this: they had a bad conscience for taking part in the government of Gyula Horn, as they denied their own previous careers and principles. In 1998, Fidesz came to government, which they had been preparing for political liquidation since 1992, and presented a morally viable and successful alternative to their betrayal. Because of this, their frustration was projected on us. I see the same thing now from quite a few Western politicians.
What do you think?
Eliminating legal discrimination against homosexuals in Germany is not an old story at all. Until 1994, this also affected the Penal Code. In 1957, the Federal Constitutional Court, affirming the existing law discriminating against homosexuality, ruled that “without it, there would be nothing to prevent homosexuals from disrupting marital relationships. […] Allowing racism against nature was followed everywhere by the biological and moral depravity of society. ” They therefore have no basis for reproaching them as if they had always considered natural and other sexual relations to be of equal value. By now, the German - and almost the whole of Europe - conservative side had given up its former convictions and completely dissociated itself from the moral pedestal of Christian culture. A few years ago, Angela Merkel allowed her party a conscientious vote on gay marriage, and although she herself did not support its introduction, CDU MPs voted against their previously voiced principles. I don't understand what this neophyte temper is! In 1994, when Hungary applied to join the European Union, and in 2004, when we joined the community, there was no mention of any lmbtq, etc. rights, that they would be part of the human rights catalog - moreover, it is directly mandatory it will be morally identifiable and contribute to the re-education of our children - as will the desire to replace the indigenous people of Europe with a Christian culture through the mass resettlement of a foreign cultural population. If we were told about this at the beginning, maybe the result of the Hungarian referendum would not have been what.
I am not overly rigorous, but some members of the opposition are blatantly rude, cheeky and evil. ”
According to them, does Hungary no longer have a place in the EU?
Hungary will remain a member of the union until it collapses. As incredible as it may sound, I was not even sure in 1988, when Fidesz was founded, that I would one day deserve the withdrawal of the Russians from Hungary and the collapse of the Soviet Union. In fact, I wasn’t even convinced that there would be a truly free choice in my life. Now, however, I feel almost certain that I will deserve it when the European Union ceases to exist in its current form. It is on an unsustainable path in economic, social, spiritual and moral terms. More and more people are drawing attention to the analogy between the decline of the European Union and the Roman Empire. We Hungarians could see - and suffered - just over a hundred years ago, what happens when an imperial elite completely loses contact with reality and does not perceive the real problems and emotions of those it governs, ignoring its values and interests. . This happened in the Habsburg Empire. We are not pushing for an end to the union, in fact. Personally, I'm not sure what comes next will definitely be better for Hungary. Considering the last seventeen years, the EU has been the construction that offers the most favorable conditions and the greatest room for maneuver to represent Hungarian national interests for centuries, but less and less, as they try to transform it into a kind of Atlantic empire.
Normality will revolt against madness, and then the union will fall apart, or the next generation of politicians will try to turn back from the current path, he said half a year ago. In which direction are events pointing?
At the most recent summit, the EU's informal leadership took a step towards disintegration. It seems that the politicians in charge, who should make calm, well-considered decisions out of office, have indeed crossed the line of madness. They are clearly annoyed by the success of a policy that works along declared principles and values. These were once known to them, perhaps even practiced, and now they are hardly hard to bear their own betrayal. Perhaps Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte was raised in a different spirit. In the Netherlands, where party politics was still under fundamental sectarian influence for forty years ago, his parents must have tried to pass on values and principles to him, leaving him alone for the sake of his political career. In the medium now dominated by the liberal mainstream, which characterizes the western member states of the union, even the slightest deviation is retaliated against, and this may even mark the end of a given politician's career. I don't envy them.
The balance of power at European level will change "
What are the chances of the European right-wing renaissance advocated by Viktor Orbán, among others?
Indeed, the image may not be as dark and hopeless as I just painted it. It is no coincidence that the Italian left is clinging tooth and nail to the governmental power behind which there has long been no majority authority. The right will take control of Italy, whether under the leadership of Giorgia Meloni, President of the Italian Brothers, or Matteo Salvini, President of the League. This will change the balance of power at European level. The same could happen in France, as competition between the centrist and the left-liberal and radical national right-wing forces behind them is more intense than ever before, and, as yesterday's regional election shows, the resurgent traditional center-right will be the laughing third. . The right-wing renaissance will de facto take place with the next one or two elections, and the effects will not remain within limits: they will affect not only the European institutions, but the entire political climate.
Speaking of which: European People's Party - better outside than inside?
I wasn’t happy to leave, I didn’t even push, but the fact was that the situation was unsustainable. We were constantly provoked, tried to humiliate us by parties with invisible support to the naked eye. They obviously enjoyed it, but they would not have dared to take the step without the support of our German friends. The latter did not undertake this openly because they have no interest in a bad relationship with a V4 Member State with which they have fruitful economic relations. So far, we have agreed on a number of substantive issues that really affect people's lives - not on issues such as the rule of law and the lmbtq case that have been dragged on by their hair - and they have been able to have an ally in us. But because of German domestic political conditions, the left dragged the CDU-CSU to a standstill, which allowed its relationship to another country's sovereign policy to become an electoral issue. Thus, in the spirit of the “principled” policy that characterizes the power-engineering thinking of Western Europe in general, the goal became that the party coalition should not become a target of the German press. To the German press, whose staff at least three-quarters openly support the Greens. So much for media pluralism!
Gyurcsány licked Tiananmen Square bright in 2007, and now he is rumoring that Hungary will be a Chinese colony ”
Meanwhile, the government doesn’t seem to have that many problems with the East. Investments are built on Chinese and Russian loans, most recently the campus of Fudan University in China has provoked resistance. Do you need the institution at home?
If asked earlier, I would have passed the question, but now that I can see what a circus is going on around it, I am convinced that we have made a good decision. One easily loses his composure and the thin gentleman’s glaze when he hears opinions coming from outside our borders. I emphasize that I am thinking of international echoes, because what Ferenc Gyurcsány is saying cannot be taken seriously.
The fact that he licked the Tiananmen Square bright in 2007, and now that Hungary will be a Chinese colony, must be measured by his mind and character, so it is not worth a word. The same is true of other opposition actors, who are also doing the fuss because their principals expect it to. But let’s look at the countries where the Fudan case is still being discussed! While they are loudly concerned and afraid of Europe’s security from Chinese influence, the volume of their economic and trade relations with China is growing dynamically. If we stay in higher education, neither the number nor the number of Western universities that have an institutionalized relationship with Chinese partner institutions, host Chinese universities in their own country, or set up their own campus in China, adapting to the rules of what they call a communist. Based on this, there is only one explanation for why they dare to say at all what the Hungarian government is free to do within the framework of its own sovereignty: what they are free to do, I do not want us to do without their permission. In 2010, Fidesz embarked on a new path in terms of economic policy, social policy, national policy and foreign policy, and this change was not only surprising to Western politicians accustomed to the adaptability of the post-communist set, but also caused them serious damage to their interests. Throughout history, the leaders of these Western European countries have never included Central and Eastern Europeans.
He considered the area to be conquered and divided, perhaps the only exception being the Kingdom of Hungary, because we had to reckon with us all the way to Trianon. Poland was divided three times and never raised any moral, civilizational concerns, and this was done together with Russia, which was considered half-Asian, barbaric. The Third Reich and the Soviet Union did so for the fourth time, then after World War II the Polish border was shifted two hundred kilometers west, the ancient territories of the country were handed over to the Soviets, East Prussia was taken away from the Germans in compensation, and millions areas from which the Germans were persecuted. Ultimately, the whole of Eastern and Central Europe was pushed into the clutches of Stalin, leaving the nations living here to colonial destiny. So when we talk about the moral depravity and loss of direction of the EU elite, World War II is inevitable as an origin. Then the Western powers teamed up against Satan with Beelzebub, and they cannot process this moral problem to this day. In this again, only we keep the mirror showing the unpleasant sight. Whenever we do not remain silent and act in a manner appropriate to a free, independent people, we are violating the tacit world order in which they have primacy. We remember it was about the reunification of Europe, not the annexation of Central and Eastern Europe.
He said last year that there will be no walking gallop in 2022, huge forces will also move from Brussels and overseas to influence the outcome of the election. What exactly were you thinking?
You have to be prepared for everything. It is quite certain that we will see things that we did not have before - otherwise it was the case in all elections. Berlin and Washington have already announced their need to intervene in Hungarian domestic politics through the public, I am thinking here of the Hungarian broadcasts of Deutsche Welle and Free Europe. The principle, the logic, and the arrogance itself are the thought-provoking that accompanies this. What would they do if, say, the V4s announced that they wanted to launch a radio broadcast in the US? Not only would politicians raise their eyebrows, users of American law would also send us home with our idea. In Germany, too, it would be astonishing to suddenly broadcast the 'Ungarische Welle', in which we would say what we think of German conditions: the repression of freedom of speech that evokes the time of dictatorships; the irrationality and ambiguity of their energy policies; about the fact that they are still - still - trying to atone for the crimes committed in the past out of the conviction of Germany's leading role by becoming the leading fighters and even increasingly violent spreaders of liberalism to the extremism. The only trouble is that they still do everything with the same blind faith and unwaveringness as they did in the times they wanted to forget. Various services marked with three-letter abbreviations are and will be intensively present with us. All possible means, even illegitimate ones, will be used to weaken the position of the ruling parties. What’s more, they haven’t been made much of a secret since 2012 - Charles Gati’s famous statements.
The case of Zsolt Borkai, József Szájer - there were cases in the current cycle which, to put it mildly, did not shed good light on the party. What is the moral state of Fidesz now?
Of course, it struck all of us with what happened to Zsolt Borkai, as he ruined the work of a life with his reckless and morally unacceptable actions. From his point of view, this is a tragedy, and all normal people, even if they are not members of Fidesz, do not treat him with joy but with regret. The situation is pretty much the same in the case of József Szájer. It is almost inexplicable what happened to him. I find his action unacceptable and politically harmful to Fidesz, but I also respect József Szájer for what he put on the table as a Member of the European Parliament, a Member of Parliament, a player in the regime change, a jurist. At the same time, slaps also have a positive effect. We had to work through a dilemma we hadn’t thought about before: how we relate to the people in our ranks who have broken the law or moral norms. Let’s start with how good it is that we still have moral norms! We know a left-wing politician who became embroiled in a scandal similar to Zsolt Borkai and József Szájer due to his own exhibitionist tendencies. After a few months of hiding, he came back with a memorable shrug of Gyula Horn when he was confronted with the puffy past: "So, and?" The left is here here with its Western friends because it has never had this type of moral problem.
For Fidesz, the role of the opposition might be good for the rest, but certainly not for the country. ”
After twelve years of rule, would the role of the opposition not be good for Fidesz?
For Fidesz, as a rest, it might be good, but certainly not for the country. The current opposition has no so-called idea of governance, it only tries to treat the high-ranking with well-thought-out announcements, which, moreover, are in sharp contrast to each other. In this cacophony, the tactic is for everyone to make the most radical, powerful statements possible, appealing to their target audience. They are confident that these constituencies will mechanically add up, but for the time being I do not see a chance that there could be a majority of voters, let alone a governing parliamentary force. Although the pre-2010 experience is given the most weight, we don’t have to go back in time until then, it is enough to look at what has been going on in some municipalities since the fall of 2019. In the settlements where the opposition coalition has won, we are following a scandal scandal, internal conflicts, the survival of reserves, the amortization of results. As a follow-up, they come up with more foolish ideas, such as the rainbow-colored plastic BLM statue in Ferencváros, the so-called beehives or the bicycle lanes that suffocate the capital with petrol vapor and dilettantly managed investments. Hungarian voters can, of course, decide that they need the latter, democracy is unfortunately a dangerous plant. Nevertheless, in 2010, 2014, and 2018, people said that once and for all, they were fed up with the arrogance of the Gyurcsány-led left, and that everything and everyone on the left was old.
What should a possible future Fidesz government do differently?
New challenges come in every cycle, in 2018 we did not see the covid on the horizon, nor in 2014 did we see the migrant invasion. Until the EU is able to come up with a clear and unambiguous decision that is practically the same as the V4's position, that is, until it tries to solve the problems that cause migration locally and closes the external borders, this challenge remains with us. Now that the Americans are withdrawing from Afghanistan, I urge everyone to pray that another crowd will not head for Europe, as this could have unpredictable consequences. Many say that the covid will not disappear completely either, and even prepare for regular epidemics. We should also think about the humor of the Good God: we have finally gathered ourselves after a century, Hungary has one of the most successful decades of its history in the last almost twelve years, while the world around us is beginning to fall apart. That is why the importance of Hungarian politics has grown to a greater extent than it would be due to the size and weight of the country.
According to press reports, you can also be among the Fidesz candidates for the position of head of state. Would you like to continue working in the Sándor Palace?
Fidesz is a strange formation for many outside observers, it is difficult to understand. One reason for this is that those who have reached a certain level in our community, almost without exception, have suffered not from over-ambition but rather from a lack of ambition. For example, when we were given the opportunity to govern in 1998, our first thought was not who our rival could be drilled to win a velvet chair, but whether we could cope with the task. Moreover, after a while, the saying spread to us: whoever really wants a position proves that he is certainly unfit for it. The term of office of President János Áder will last for several more months, according to the constitutional rules, there is no time for nomination yet. If I were invited at the right time, I wouldn’t be very enthusiastic either, I never had this type of ambition in me. It is another matter that my friend János Áder was not chased around the table in his childhood for the presidency of the Republic, yet he undertook it, because he felt it was his duty, and he fulfilled it with honor. Almost everyone in our community thinks this way: if we have to face something, we don’t get out of the task. However, as I said, I do not see that this would be a reality now.
How will the summer break go?
My wife and I will definitely spend a few days with our parents in Zala and Pápa. We want to repay our debts due to the pandemic, as we have met in a mask, in the yard, during one or two short visits. In addition, I am official for some events in Transylvania in August, where, in addition to fulfilling my protocol obligations, we can also be with my friends there a bit.